I think that this cartoon says it all about the Sheehan crowd. Cindi has to know that she's embaressing her son through her actions. It seems that his desires are forgotten when things are done in his name.
I would not say that the best person to speak for their political beliefs is their mother. I'd use my fiance as an example. His parents are extremely liberal, and Art... Well, just look at his blog and you will see.
Cindi Sheehan doesn't believe in the war. There is nothing said about her son's beliefs. I don't think this really has anything to do with her son.
Have to agree with jim on this one-well said. I know that will come as a big suprise to El (lol) as we seem to be on opposite sides of most poliical issues/or at least this one. I don't know if Cindy Sheehans political opinions concur with her sons or not, but then neither does anyone else who's blogging about how she's shaming her son. I volunteered for the first Gulf War, I'm a liberal, and I'm eternally grateful that I can't be called up to fight this Iraq war because I simply don't believe there was a good reason to fight it. If I had to go however, I would, and if I we're killed and my Mom came out against the war--she would be trumpting my opinions. So it is possible to be a soldier and not agree with the war your country/president decides to fight. Who knows what Casey thought?--Only his family and friends obviously. Sorry to ramble.
In your scenario I'd agree with you. If Casey Sheehan did not in fact agree with the war, and his mother came out against it after he'd been killed I'd see nothing wrong with that. All we've heard so far though (even from Cindy's own mouth) is that Casey was very much in favor of the war. He believed in what he was fighting in. If someone dies for a cause they believe in, then I do believe that it dishonors their memory by actively protesting those very beliefs. We'll probably never agree on this one, but that's okay.
It is a bit weird having a political discussion here. Funny, and all I did was put up a cartoon. This is a hot issue though, and I have both liberals and conservatives that come here. Pretty cool really:)
In answer to your question, no, I don't think a parent of a cult member would be wrong for denouncing that cult. The implication here is of course that the military is a cult, and that its members are brain washed. I know that this is what many people on the left believe. I find it strange that most of these people are surprised when they actually meet and talk to someone who is in the military. They have all these preconceived notions about what we must be like. The military is not composed of automotons who blindly adhere to a single ideology. We are asked to take a simple oath, to support and defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies. Most people join because they believe in this country (despite its flaws) and are willing to give their lives to defend it. Unlike socialist states we do not have a particular ideology thrust upon us, and we do not have political officers in our ranks. I have travelled around the world in the Navy, and I have yet to see a place that I would prefer to the United States. I formulated this idea on my own without any outside assistance. I know that Casey Sheehan came to the same conclusion, otherwise he wouldn't have put on the uniform. Every man entertains the idea of military service at some point in his life. I'm sure that the thought crosed your mind once or twice yourself Jim. There is no shame in choosing not to serve, but there is honor in volunteering for a mission not of your choosing. Casey Sheehan is a hero not because of the way he died, but because of the way he lived. He volunteered to put on a uniform and to die for his country if the call came. He did so again four years later. Cindy Sheehan has called the war in Afghanistan illegal. Would we be having this discussion if her son had died in combat there? The location of a soldier's death makes their sacrifice no more, or less heroic. Cindy's actions demoralize the troops in the war zone, and provide propaganda value to the enemy. Does this honor her son? The military is a brotherhood (and sisterhood). Most units are a family. For many of us it is the only family that we know. We too grieve for each of our fallen brothers, then we go on with our mission.
It is nice to see a political discussion without the name calling and rhetoric. Art--I totally respect Caseys' service to his country, and yours. I can understand why Cindy Sheehans comments and feelings could be demoralizing to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (and by the way I disagree with her stance on Afghanistan), but if some Americans truly believe we are involved in an unjust war in Iraq, what would you have them do, if not protest or speak out? I mean, I believe if you truly love your country and you honestly think it's made a huge mistake, it's your duty as a citizen to stand up and voice your concerns. I do not believe in the Iraq war, but I don't agree with the people who think we should immediately pull out either--we have a responsibility to the Iraqi people now that we've overthrown their government to follow through and help them.
I think that change can be accomplished in a more constructive manner. Proposing an alternate policy, and challenging incumbents at the ballot. I want to hear how things can be done better. If there's a better way to fight terrorism, then I'm all ears. I think the problem with the anti-war movement is that they've defined what they're against (George Bush/Iraq War), but not really what they're for. Before expending energy, I think one must ask themselves if a particular course of action can truly effect change. I don't believe that change will come from protesting. Instead why not concentrate on formulating an alternative policy and challenging the current candidates in the mid-term elections. I am conservative but I don't believe that all Democratic ideas are dumb. If both parties would divorce themselves from the fringe, and start defining what they're for, then I think we'll be a lot closer to where most Americans seem to be. Thankyou for your service as well.
Art--I agree with you for the most part. I don't believe protesting a war you disagree with is wrong, but I, like you, think that the best course of action for the Democrats now is to formulate alternative policies to the republicans and spend most of their time and money getting them out to the American people. I also agree that the fringe elements in both parties should be left behind.
I'm not advising you to join the military Jim. It's not for everyone. I was simply stating that if no one joined because they dislike a particular administration, or policy then the country would truly be in a bind. As to the policy of peaceful protest, I see distinct differences between the civil rights protests and now. The people protesting for civil rights were by definition disenfranchised. They were not permitted the right to vote. Last time I checked this was not the case with the people conducting protests. They may be unhappy with the outcome of the elections but they were not deprived of their right to vote. As for morale, I respectfully disagree with you. Soldiers will fight as long as they believe that they are supported back home. Anyone who does this for benefits is in the wrong business. I'm not sure what benefits you're referring to being cut either. Pay has gone up the last five years, as have benefits. Military personnel voted overwhelmingly for Bush, and those that have been in Iraq have higher reenlistment rates. Looking at this statisitic you'd have to conlude that the military is consumed by bloodlust or that it's members genuinely believe they are providing a valuable service. I lean towards the latter. Don't worry about El, she's thrilled to be getting so many comments whatever their length.
11 comments:
I think that this cartoon says it all about the Sheehan crowd. Cindi has to know that she's embaressing her son through her actions. It seems that his desires are forgotten when things are done in his name.
I would not say that the best person to speak for their political beliefs is their mother. I'd use my fiance as an example. His parents are extremely liberal, and Art... Well, just look at his blog and you will see.
Cindi Sheehan doesn't believe in the war. There is nothing said about her son's beliefs. I don't think this really has anything to do with her son.
Have to agree with jim on this one-well said. I know that will come as a big suprise to El (lol) as we seem to be on opposite sides of most poliical issues/or at least this one. I don't know if Cindy Sheehans political opinions concur with her sons or not, but then neither does anyone else who's blogging about how she's shaming her son. I volunteered for the first Gulf War, I'm a liberal, and I'm eternally grateful that I can't be called up to fight this Iraq war because I simply don't believe there was a good reason to fight it. If I had to go however, I would, and if I we're killed and my Mom came out against the war--she would be trumpting my opinions. So it is possible to be a soldier and not agree with the war your country/president decides to fight. Who knows what Casey thought?--Only his family and friends obviously. Sorry to ramble.
Leo,
In your scenario I'd agree with you. If Casey Sheehan did not in fact agree with the war, and his mother came out against it after he'd been killed I'd see nothing wrong with that. All we've heard so far though (even from Cindy's own mouth) is that Casey was very much in favor of the war. He believed in what he was fighting in. If someone dies for a cause they believe in, then I do believe that it dishonors their memory by actively protesting those very beliefs. We'll probably never agree on this one, but that's okay.
It's really weird having a political discussion on your blog el.
It is a bit weird having a political discussion here. Funny, and all I did was put up a cartoon. This is a hot issue though, and I have both liberals and conservatives that come here. Pretty cool really:)
Jim,
In answer to your question, no, I don't think a parent of a cult member would be wrong for denouncing that cult. The implication here is of course that the military is a cult, and that its members are brain washed. I know that this is what many people on the left believe. I find it strange that most of these people are surprised when they actually meet and talk to someone who is in the military. They have all these preconceived notions about what we must be like. The military is not composed of automotons who blindly adhere to a single ideology. We are asked to take a simple oath, to support and defend the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies. Most people join because they believe in this country (despite its flaws) and are willing to give their lives to defend it. Unlike socialist states we do not have a particular ideology thrust upon us, and we do not have political officers in our ranks. I have travelled around the world in the Navy, and I have yet to see a place that I would prefer to the United States. I formulated this idea on my own without any outside assistance. I know that Casey Sheehan came to the same conclusion, otherwise he wouldn't have put on the uniform. Every man entertains the idea of military service at some point in his life. I'm sure that the thought crosed your mind once or twice yourself Jim. There is no shame in choosing not to serve, but there is honor in volunteering for a mission not of your choosing. Casey Sheehan is a hero not because of the way he died, but because of the way he lived. He volunteered to put on a uniform and to die for his country if the call came. He did so again four years later. Cindy Sheehan has called the war in Afghanistan illegal. Would we be having this discussion if her son had died in combat there? The location of a soldier's death makes their sacrifice no more, or less heroic. Cindy's actions demoralize the troops in the war zone, and provide propaganda value to the enemy. Does this honor her son? The military is a brotherhood (and sisterhood). Most units are a family. For many of us it is the only family that we know. We too grieve for each of our fallen brothers, then we go on with our mission.
It is nice to see a political discussion without the name calling and rhetoric. Art--I totally respect Caseys' service to his country, and yours. I can understand why Cindy Sheehans comments and feelings could be demoralizing to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (and by the way I disagree with her stance on Afghanistan), but if some Americans truly believe we are involved in an unjust war in Iraq, what would you have them do, if not protest or speak out? I mean, I believe if you truly love your country and you honestly think it's made a huge mistake, it's your duty as a citizen to stand up and voice your concerns. I do not believe in the Iraq war, but I don't agree with the people who think we should immediately pull out either--we have a responsibility to the Iraqi people now that we've overthrown their government to follow through and help them.
Leo,
I think that change can be accomplished in a more constructive manner. Proposing an alternate policy, and challenging incumbents at the ballot. I want to hear how things can be done better. If there's a better way to fight terrorism, then I'm all ears. I think the problem with the anti-war movement is that they've defined what they're against (George Bush/Iraq War), but not really what they're for. Before expending energy, I think one must ask themselves if a particular course of action can truly effect change. I don't believe that change will come from protesting. Instead why not concentrate on formulating an alternative policy and challenging the current candidates in the mid-term elections. I am conservative but I don't believe that all Democratic ideas are dumb. If both parties would divorce themselves from the fringe, and start defining what they're for, then I think we'll be a lot closer to where most Americans seem to be. Thankyou for your service as well.
Art--I agree with you for the most part. I don't believe protesting a war you disagree with is wrong, but I, like you, think that the best course of action for the Democrats now is to formulate alternative policies to the republicans and spend most of their time and money getting them out to the American people. I also agree that the fringe elements in both parties should be left behind.
I'm not advising you to join the military Jim. It's not for everyone. I was simply stating that if no one joined because they dislike a particular administration, or policy then the country would truly be in a bind. As to the policy of peaceful protest, I see distinct differences between the civil rights protests and now. The people protesting for civil rights were by definition disenfranchised. They were not permitted the right to vote. Last time I checked this was not the case with the people conducting protests. They may be unhappy with the outcome of the elections but they were not deprived of their right to vote. As for morale, I respectfully disagree with you. Soldiers will fight as long as they believe that they are supported back home. Anyone who does this for benefits is in the wrong business. I'm not sure what benefits you're referring to being cut either. Pay has gone up the last five years, as have benefits. Military personnel voted overwhelmingly for Bush, and those that have been in Iraq have higher reenlistment rates. Looking at this statisitic you'd have to conlude that the military is consumed by bloodlust or that it's members genuinely believe they are providing a valuable service. I lean towards the latter. Don't worry about El, she's thrilled to be getting so many comments whatever their length.
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